Most people in Hong Kong live in flats in high-rise buildings.
In the building we live in, which is unassumingly typical, there are 29 floors and 12 flats per floor. That gives a total of 348 flats. Assuming an average of 2 people per flat (a low estimate; there are 5 in my own flat), and assuming all flats are occupied, that leads to at least 700 people in our building.
My next door neighbor's door is so close that if I spread open one of my hands and have my thumb touch our door, my little finger is just one inch away from touching my next-door neighbor's door, which is at a 90-degree angle from mine.
Bumping into neighbors is a frequent occurence (but not literally bumping - it's not that crowded). You come across them as you wait for the lift (elevator), you share lifts with them, you come across them at the lobby, at the bus stop, inside the bus, at neighbourhood shops, and even at the garbage disposal.
In order to appear (be) civil, you will be expected to utter some phrases of greeting and common courtesy when bumping into people. Some of the most common expressions include:
jo2 san4 - good morning
lei5 ho2? - how are you?
joi3 gin3 - good bye/see you
Remember that every word must be pronounced with the correct tones.
(I just used jo2 san4 this very morning and mis-toned on the san4, pronouncing it at a higher tone than jo2 -- a dead give-away of my speaking competence. Fortunately, I had a chance to redeem myself a few minutes later as the cleaning ladies arrived, and I greeted them with a sparklingly perfect jo2 san4).
You'll hear jo2 san4 very frequently in the morning, as it's very standard. There seems to be, however, no equivalent standard greeting for 'good afternoon', or 'good evening'. I'm told that for those periods of the day, you just greet or acknowledge a person by uttering their name.
Lei5 ho2 is also a standard way of saying 'how are you?' As in English conversation, it's just politeness. You are not really expected to say that you've had a bad week, had been seeing the doctor for 3 weeks now, and all your other woes.
When you are really interested, you ask lei5 ho2 ma3? which is a more personal greeting. You ask this only of friends and relatives, and not of strangers and acquaintances. It's similar to the usage of 'how have you been?'
When parting ways, Cantonese say joi3 gin3, which means 'see you again'. It's also common to say 'bye bye', but with a Cantonese intonation.
Here's a typical conversation:
On meeting at a building lobby
A: Jo2 san4 (good morning)
B: Jo2 san4
(Some Cantonese small talk or silence, depending on how well acquainted they are)
A: Joi3 gin3 (see you, bye)
B: Joi3 gin3
Next: You and yours, me and mine.
02 December 2005
01 December 2005
The Six Tones
Many words in Cantonese are spoken with two pitches. You begin a word at one pitch, and end at a higher pitch, or a lower pitch, as required by the word.
When you say 'yeah?' in English, note how the ending sound is at a higher pitch than the opening 'y' sound. This is similar to the Middle Rising tone in Cantonese. For contrast, say the same word 'yeah...' and listen to how the pitch remains even throughout.
Do you see how using a Middle Rising tone when you say 'yeah?' indicates to the user that you are asking a question? And how saying 'yeah' at an even pitch indicates to the user that you are making a statement of fact. That's an example of changing the meaning of a word by using the pitch, although the situation is far more radical in Cantonese, where yeah can mean 'darkness' and a rising yeah can mean 'countryside'.
Let us know return back to the first 6 tones and the Lau system. Let's also refer back to the musical notes do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti as an easy reference for how a word could be pronounced. We say 'could be' because, as mentioned before, Cantonese does not demand absolute pitch.
By appending a number at the end of each romanised Cantonese word, we can tell the tone that the word must be spoken at (must -- it is not voluntary). This notation of appending a number is the Lau system.
Tone 1 High Falling
Say such words as if the start is at the same pitch as the note fa and the final (lower) sound at
mi.
Tone 2 Middle Rising
This is the reverse of Tone 1. Say these words starting at a pitch of mi and ending at fa.
Tone 3 Middle Level
Speak the word at mi and remain at mi all throughout. You'd think this is easy, but remember not to change the tone even if you are asking a question!
Tone 4 Low Falling
Speak the word at re and end at the lower do.
Tone 5 Low Rising
The reverse of Tone 4. Speak the word at do and end at the lower re.
Tone 6 Low Level
Speak the word at do and remain at do all throughout the word.
That is all.
Don't worry about having to memorise the 6 tones; you will become familiar with them quite quickly. A useful memory device I use is to remember that the 'higher' numbers (1,2,3) have to do with High and Middle tones, and the 'lower' numbers (4,5,6) have to do with the lower tones.
Uh...1,2,3 are higher numbers? Yes, if you associate then with rank (1st place is higher than 2nd place is higher than 3rd place).
Next: Enough theory, let's start talking to neighbors!
When you say 'yeah?' in English, note how the ending sound is at a higher pitch than the opening 'y' sound. This is similar to the Middle Rising tone in Cantonese. For contrast, say the same word 'yeah...' and listen to how the pitch remains even throughout.
Do you see how using a Middle Rising tone when you say 'yeah?' indicates to the user that you are asking a question? And how saying 'yeah' at an even pitch indicates to the user that you are making a statement of fact. That's an example of changing the meaning of a word by using the pitch, although the situation is far more radical in Cantonese, where yeah can mean 'darkness' and a rising yeah can mean 'countryside'.
Let us know return back to the first 6 tones and the Lau system. Let's also refer back to the musical notes do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti as an easy reference for how a word could be pronounced. We say 'could be' because, as mentioned before, Cantonese does not demand absolute pitch.
By appending a number at the end of each romanised Cantonese word, we can tell the tone that the word must be spoken at (must -- it is not voluntary). This notation of appending a number is the Lau system.
Tone 1 High Falling
Say such words as if the start is at the same pitch as the note fa and the final (lower) sound at
mi.
Tone 2 Middle Rising
This is the reverse of Tone 1. Say these words starting at a pitch of mi and ending at fa.
Tone 3 Middle Level
Speak the word at mi and remain at mi all throughout. You'd think this is easy, but remember not to change the tone even if you are asking a question!
Tone 4 Low Falling
Speak the word at re and end at the lower do.
Tone 5 Low Rising
The reverse of Tone 4. Speak the word at do and end at the lower re.
Tone 6 Low Level
Speak the word at do and remain at do all throughout the word.
That is all.
Don't worry about having to memorise the 6 tones; you will become familiar with them quite quickly. A useful memory device I use is to remember that the 'higher' numbers (1,2,3) have to do with High and Middle tones, and the 'lower' numbers (4,5,6) have to do with the lower tones.
Uh...1,2,3 are higher numbers? Yes, if you associate then with rank (1st place is higher than 2nd place is higher than 3rd place).
Next: Enough theory, let's start talking to neighbors!
28 November 2005
The Tones
Happy Thanksgiving!
We mentioned that Cantonese is a tonal language. Tones are an integral part of a word -- the meaning of a sound depends on the tone. Different tone = different word.
Tone refers to the pitch of one's voice in pronouncing a word. You pronounce some words at a higher pitch than others, and some words at a lower pitch than others.
This is an unsettling way of speaking, and often takes months for some people to get used to it (and many don't). After all, we pronounce each word in English using just one flat boring pitch (Oh, really? No! We do NOT. Duh.)
Fortunately, the range of tones is quite limited, and every single one is in use in standard English and cetainly within reach of anyone who can speak English. Note that you do not have to squeak out the high tones at Bernadette Peters' pitch or resonate at the low tones of Lurch (Addams Family), although that would certainly be fun.
Sometimes, the problem is not the tones itself. If you can sing do-re-mi, you will do fine. Sometimes, the problem is mindset. Some people just cannot believe that tones affect not just the meaning of the word, but actually changes the word into an unrelated one. Some people believe that they are exempt from this rule. They're not. You're not. I'm not. If you don't use the right tone, you won't be understood.
In the movie Jurassic Park, the children were told that if you stand still, the T-Rex will not 'see' you even if you were standing right in front of it and even if it was looking for you. It's hard to believe, and all your instincts say 'run!'. It's the same with Cantonese. No matter how earnest you are in pronouncing a word, no matter how earnest your listener is, if you speak words at the wrong tone, you won't be understood.
How many tones do we have to learn? Formally, there are supposed to be 10. But according to some teachers, only seven are in actual use, even by native speakers. Since we're not linguists, we restrict ourselves to the seven:
1 - High Falling
2 - Middle Rising
3 - Middle Level
4 - Low Falling
5 - Low Rising
6 - Low Level
* - Modified Tone
If we take your normal pitch as your Middle Level tone, then you pronounce High Falling tones at a higher pitch than your normal tone. Again, you do not change your voice into Mickey Mouse; you just pronounce it at a higher tone, as you would the "yeah" in 'oh, yeah?
For another insight, let's take that your normal pitch is at 'mi' in do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do. Then you can pronounce Low Level words at the same tone as the first 'do', and you can pronounce High Falling at the same pitch as 'sol'. (We stress can because you can go even higher or even lower, as you prefer).
It is the relativeness of the pitch that is important. Cantonese does not demand absolute pitch. There is no one universal fixed pitch for each word -- we do not have to pronounce the same word at the exact same pitch as every other person. You just have to pronounce them at a higher or lower pitch relative to your own normal pitch. I may pronounce Middle Tones at a higher pitch than you do, but it's still middle tone.
Next: We lied. Each word does not have one tone, but two tones.
We mentioned that Cantonese is a tonal language. Tones are an integral part of a word -- the meaning of a sound depends on the tone. Different tone = different word.
Tone refers to the pitch of one's voice in pronouncing a word. You pronounce some words at a higher pitch than others, and some words at a lower pitch than others.
This is an unsettling way of speaking, and often takes months for some people to get used to it (and many don't). After all, we pronounce each word in English using just one flat boring pitch (Oh, really? No! We do NOT. Duh.)
Fortunately, the range of tones is quite limited, and every single one is in use in standard English and cetainly within reach of anyone who can speak English. Note that you do not have to squeak out the high tones at Bernadette Peters' pitch or resonate at the low tones of Lurch (Addams Family), although that would certainly be fun.
Sometimes, the problem is not the tones itself. If you can sing do-re-mi, you will do fine. Sometimes, the problem is mindset. Some people just cannot believe that tones affect not just the meaning of the word, but actually changes the word into an unrelated one. Some people believe that they are exempt from this rule. They're not. You're not. I'm not. If you don't use the right tone, you won't be understood.
In the movie Jurassic Park, the children were told that if you stand still, the T-Rex will not 'see' you even if you were standing right in front of it and even if it was looking for you. It's hard to believe, and all your instincts say 'run!'. It's the same with Cantonese. No matter how earnest you are in pronouncing a word, no matter how earnest your listener is, if you speak words at the wrong tone, you won't be understood.
How many tones do we have to learn? Formally, there are supposed to be 10. But according to some teachers, only seven are in actual use, even by native speakers. Since we're not linguists, we restrict ourselves to the seven:
1 - High Falling
2 - Middle Rising
3 - Middle Level
4 - Low Falling
5 - Low Rising
6 - Low Level
* - Modified Tone
If we take your normal pitch as your Middle Level tone, then you pronounce High Falling tones at a higher pitch than your normal tone. Again, you do not change your voice into Mickey Mouse; you just pronounce it at a higher tone, as you would the "yeah" in 'oh, yeah?
For another insight, let's take that your normal pitch is at 'mi' in do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do. Then you can pronounce Low Level words at the same tone as the first 'do', and you can pronounce High Falling at the same pitch as 'sol'. (We stress can because you can go even higher or even lower, as you prefer).
It is the relativeness of the pitch that is important. Cantonese does not demand absolute pitch. There is no one universal fixed pitch for each word -- we do not have to pronounce the same word at the exact same pitch as every other person. You just have to pronounce them at a higher or lower pitch relative to your own normal pitch. I may pronounce Middle Tones at a higher pitch than you do, but it's still middle tone.
Next: We lied. Each word does not have one tone, but two tones.
21 November 2005
Can3 You1 Read3 This4?
To indicate the tone at which a Cantonese word must be spoken at, linguists have devised ways to mark up English words used to romanise Cantonese words.
To romanise means to spell out a non-English word in using roman characters (i.e., a,b,c,d...etc). That is what we have been doing since our very first posts. When we write, gei chin ah, we are romanising the Cantonese words with roman spellings that we think approximate the actual pronounciation of the Cantonese word. (Cantonese is of course, not natively written using roman characters).
Since tones are critical in Cantonese, a romanisation without any indication of tone is virtually useless.
There are several extant standards for Cantonese romanisation; what we will use is the Lau System. In this system, each of the various tones used in Cantonese are each assigned a number, and the number is appended at the end of each romanised word, so the reader is informed as to which tone the word must be pronounced.
This is an example of romanisation using the Lau system: Gei2 chin4 ah3?
It's a very simple and effective system. If you know what 2, or 3, or 4 means, then you know which tone to employ.
To romanise means to spell out a non-English word in using roman characters (i.e., a,b,c,d...etc). That is what we have been doing since our very first posts. When we write, gei chin ah, we are romanising the Cantonese words with roman spellings that we think approximate the actual pronounciation of the Cantonese word. (Cantonese is of course, not natively written using roman characters).
Since tones are critical in Cantonese, a romanisation without any indication of tone is virtually useless.
There are several extant standards for Cantonese romanisation; what we will use is the Lau System. In this system, each of the various tones used in Cantonese are each assigned a number, and the number is appended at the end of each romanised word, so the reader is informed as to which tone the word must be pronounced.
This is an example of romanisation using the Lau system: Gei2 chin4 ah3?
It's a very simple and effective system. If you know what 2, or 3, or 4 means, then you know which tone to employ.
* * *
Next: Ready your singing voices and clean your ears. Introducing the tones.19 November 2005
Speaking in Tones
Many non-Chinese are vaguely aware that the Chinese language, and for that matter, Cantonese, is a monosyllabic language. If you sit down and think about it, you could come to convince yourself that there exists an almost infinite number of one-syllable sounds one can make.
But for reasons known only to the ancients (and maybe some linguists), Cantonese has not made use of all these possible one-syllable sounds. It frugally uses only a very small subset.
Unfortunately, instead of making it easier to learn the language (after all, the fewer sounds to remember, the sooner you can speak the language, right?), the limited set of sounds has caused grief to many stout-hearted men and women.
What is the Cantonese word for buy? Maai. What is the Cantonese word for sell? Maai. See any difference?
Do you see a problem?
Now we can understand why our friend gets forks whenever he asks for tea -- the Cantonese word for tea is cha and the Cantonese word for fork is cha.
Are the Cantonese crazy? Who in their right mind would use the same word to mean different things? Should the British colonials have forced the Cantonese in Hong Kong to cleave from their native language and cleave to English?
The answer is no, they are not crazy, and maai is not the same word as maai, and we are no longer in Kansas. We are now at the brink of the next stage of understanding Cantonese.
Hurdling this stage is critical to understanding the language. It is a daunting task requiring faith, diligence, persistence. There is no way to avoid it.
_____________________
Footlinks:
But for reasons known only to the ancients (and maybe some linguists), Cantonese has not made use of all these possible one-syllable sounds. It frugally uses only a very small subset.
Unfortunately, instead of making it easier to learn the language (after all, the fewer sounds to remember, the sooner you can speak the language, right?), the limited set of sounds has caused grief to many stout-hearted men and women.
What is the Cantonese word for buy? Maai. What is the Cantonese word for sell? Maai. See any difference?
Do you see a problem?
Now we can understand why our friend gets forks whenever he asks for tea -- the Cantonese word for tea is cha and the Cantonese word for fork is cha.
Are the Cantonese crazy? Who in their right mind would use the same word to mean different things? Should the British colonials have forced the Cantonese in Hong Kong to cleave from their native language and cleave to English?
The answer is no, they are not crazy, and maai is not the same word as maai, and we are no longer in Kansas. We are now at the brink of the next stage of understanding Cantonese.
Hurdling this stage is critical to understanding the language. It is a daunting task requiring faith, diligence, persistence. There is no way to avoid it.
* * *
Next: Welcome to the world of tonal languages._____________________
Footlinks:
- There are any number of people who will argue that Chinese should not be called a monosyllabic language. For a clear explanation of that position, see (among others) http://www.askasia.org/frclasrm/readings/r000020.htm
- Just in case you didn't get it, the English word cleave has two opposite meanings.
16 November 2005
Yes and No
Some languages do not have words for Yes or No. That statement sounds astonishing to many English speakers who cannot imagine functioning without those two 'essential' words.
Yet even fairly recently, some subcultures of American society functioned without those very two words.
Some archaeological evidence from the late 20th century:
Teen girl #1: Jason Priestly is sooo cool!
Teen girl #2: Luke Perry is so much hotter!
Teen girl #1 : Is not!
Teen girl #2: Is too!
Teen girl #1: Is NOT!
Teen girl #2: Is TOO!
Evidence that conversations can exist without yes or no and without substance.
Cantonese is one of those yes-less languages (but not substance-less). When Cantonese speakers want to affirm something, they usually say hai, which means 'is' (or if you want to sound more Oriental, 'is so').
A: Are you an earthling?
B: Hai (am)
A: Do you like coffee?
B: Hai
To say no, just negate the hai. Computer scientists will recognise the construct and perhaps admire the elegance. In many modern computer programming languages for example, to negate something, you put a '!' (read as 'not') in front. Thus, !true is false. !Yes is No. !Fat is thin.
In Cantonese, you use m instead of !.
A: Are you Chinese?
B: M Hai (am not)
Some readers familiar with Japanese will recall that the Japanese also say hai when they mean yes.
The Cantonese hai and the Japanese hai sound different. The Japanese hai stops abruptly, as if the final sound gets swiftly sliced off with a samurai, immediately rendering it silent (say hai and then just after you pronounce a little bit of the 'i', stop and constrict your throat to prevent any further sound). [I'm not Japanese so don't take that as authoritative].
In contrast, the Cantonese hai fades out softly, almost like a sigh: haiiii... It sounds like the English greeting 'Hi' if said droopily.
Yet even fairly recently, some subcultures of American society functioned without those very two words.
Some archaeological evidence from the late 20th century:
Teen girl #1: Jason Priestly is sooo cool!
Teen girl #2: Luke Perry is so much hotter!
Teen girl #1 : Is not!
Teen girl #2: Is too!
Teen girl #1: Is NOT!
Teen girl #2: Is TOO!
Evidence that conversations can exist without yes or no and without substance.
Cantonese is one of those yes-less languages (but not substance-less). When Cantonese speakers want to affirm something, they usually say hai, which means 'is' (or if you want to sound more Oriental, 'is so').
A: Are you an earthling?
B: Hai (am)
A: Do you like coffee?
B: Hai
To say no, just negate the hai. Computer scientists will recognise the construct and perhaps admire the elegance. In many modern computer programming languages for example, to negate something, you put a '!' (read as 'not') in front. Thus, !true is false. !Yes is No. !Fat is thin.
In Cantonese, you use m instead of !.
A: Are you Chinese?
B: M Hai (am not)
Some readers familiar with Japanese will recall that the Japanese also say hai when they mean yes.
The Cantonese hai and the Japanese hai sound different. The Japanese hai stops abruptly, as if the final sound gets swiftly sliced off with a samurai, immediately rendering it silent (say hai and then just after you pronounce a little bit of the 'i', stop and constrict your throat to prevent any further sound). [I'm not Japanese so don't take that as authoritative].
In contrast, the Cantonese hai fades out softly, almost like a sigh: haiiii... It sounds like the English greeting 'Hi' if said droopily.
* * *
Next: I keep asking for tea. Why does every waiter in Hong Kong keep giving me a fork?
_____________________
Footlinks:
Footlinks:
- Jimmy Akin has a decent coverage of languages that don't have Yes or No.
13 November 2005
Thank You
To say thank you in Cantonese to someone who has rendered you a service, you say m goi. This is exactly the same word for 'excuse me'.
Why use the same word (or rather, phrase)? The key seems to be this: when you say excuse me, you are asking someone to render you a service (such as making way for you to get off a lift). When a service has been rendered you say m goi (thank you for the service).
You don't need to have requested the service to say m goi (thank you). After you have been served at the post office, for example, it is simply good manners to say m goi to the person who served you.
Sometimes people say m goi saih, which seems to be the equivalent of thank you very much (as opposed to a simple thank you). The saih rhymes with the English word 'high'. If someone rendered you a service that went beyond mere courtesy, such as offering you their seat in a bus, it is appropriate to say m goi saih.
Just to clarify -- the goi rhymes with 'toy'. Don't read it as 'gwah'. This is not French.
Armed with our knowledge of amounts, we can now venture out a little and make some small conversation.
At a shop:
A: (Pointing to an item) M goi! Gei chin ah? (Excuse me, how much?)
B: M sap man ($50.00)
A: (Pointing to another item) Gei chin ah? (How much?)
B: Chat sap say man ($74.00)
A: (Pointing to another item) Gei chin ah? (How much?)
B: Yat baak sam sap go baht ($130.80)
A: M goi saih (Thank you)
B: @**%&#$! (Cheapskate)
Another word for thank you is to che. You use this version of thank you to thank someone who has given you something. If a friend gives you a gift, you say to che. To rhymes with the the 'to' in the English word 'toxic'. It does not rhyme with 'two' or with 'dough'. Che rhymes with the "cze" in Czechoslovakia.
Typically, after you buy something from a vendor, the final pleasantries will see you saying m goi (thank you for the service) and the vendor saying to che (thank you for the money). You can also say to che saih to mean 'thank you very much'.
To summarize, to say thank you:
Next: He asked me to marry him, and I couldn't say no because Cantonese has no word for no.
Why use the same word (or rather, phrase)? The key seems to be this: when you say excuse me, you are asking someone to render you a service (such as making way for you to get off a lift). When a service has been rendered you say m goi (thank you for the service).
You don't need to have requested the service to say m goi (thank you). After you have been served at the post office, for example, it is simply good manners to say m goi to the person who served you.
Sometimes people say m goi saih, which seems to be the equivalent of thank you very much (as opposed to a simple thank you). The saih rhymes with the English word 'high'. If someone rendered you a service that went beyond mere courtesy, such as offering you their seat in a bus, it is appropriate to say m goi saih.
Just to clarify -- the goi rhymes with 'toy'. Don't read it as 'gwah'. This is not French.
Armed with our knowledge of amounts, we can now venture out a little and make some small conversation.
At a shop:
A: (Pointing to an item) M goi! Gei chin ah? (Excuse me, how much?)
B: M sap man ($50.00)
A: (Pointing to another item) Gei chin ah? (How much?)
B: Chat sap say man ($74.00)
A: (Pointing to another item) Gei chin ah? (How much?)
B: Yat baak sam sap go baht ($130.80)
A: M goi saih (Thank you)
B: @**%&#$! (Cheapskate)
Another word for thank you is to che. You use this version of thank you to thank someone who has given you something. If a friend gives you a gift, you say to che. To rhymes with the the 'to' in the English word 'toxic'. It does not rhyme with 'two' or with 'dough'. Che rhymes with the "cze" in Czechoslovakia.
Typically, after you buy something from a vendor, the final pleasantries will see you saying m goi (thank you for the service) and the vendor saying to che (thank you for the money). You can also say to che saih to mean 'thank you very much'.
To summarize, to say thank you:
- m goi (saih) - thank you (for a service you did for me)
- to che (saih) - thank you (for this thing you gave me)
Next: He asked me to marry him, and I couldn't say no because Cantonese has no word for no.
12 November 2005
Rude Hong Kong? Excuse Me
When friends talk about their experiences in Hong Kong, the topic touchstones of the conversation will often include shopping, and rudeness.
Hong Kong seems to have a reputation of having some rather rude people. Dodgy shopkeepers who prey on tourists surely tops the list. Although a very small minority, an encounter with one leaves a bad taste in the mouth that's hard to forget.
Most visitors never have such encounters, and apart from the fantastic sites, helps explain why Hong Kong is a top tourist destination in Asia. People who've been here recommend it to their friends. Nevertheless, it is the stories about bad experiences that travel the fastest and farthest and get the most attention.
Apart from unscrupulous individuals, the general public is also sometimes viewed askance as having some rude social behaviour. One that's often noticed involves people using the lift. Would-be passengers will try to rush themselves into a lift ('elevator' in American), sometimes even before the last person to come out has had a fair chance to try and come out.
On the other hand, it's seldom noted that people queue up automatically while waiting for their bus. If you come from a society where people ordinarily queue up for a lift, you'd find the lift-pincer attack custom in Hong Kong a bit rude. One the other hand, if your background comes from a society where people do not queue up for a bus, you'd find Hong Kong quite civilised.
Whether the reputation of rudeness is deserved or not is arguable, but it does exist. We all have our opinion, whether built from expectations, the stories we hear, and from our own experiences. Regardless of your view, it is undeniable that some of the most commonly heard words in this 'rude' city are words of courtesy and common etiquette.
These words are among the first we need to know, and the ones we will be using many times each day.
Perhaps the first phrase most people learn how to say is 'excuse me'.
The Cantonese phrase for excuse me is m goy. The m is said as 'mm...', not as 'em'. The goy rhymes with the English word 'toy'.
You have to say m and goy running one after the other, with no distinct pause in between. But they do consist of two syllables. I would like to meet you if you manage to pronounce them with one syllable.
The following are wrong:
You also use m goy to attract a shopkeeper's attention if you want service. If you wanted to stop someone in the street to ask for directions, the first words you say are m goy.
If you accidentally bump someone and want to say 'sorry, excuse me', you also use m goy.
You can use m goy in every situation where you would use excuse me. It's a handy word to know. It's a word associated with politeness and courtesy. By using it often, we help dispel some of the myth of rudeness in Hong Kong.
Next: The most commonly used word in daily Cantonese is m goy. The second most used word is also m goy.
Hong Kong seems to have a reputation of having some rather rude people. Dodgy shopkeepers who prey on tourists surely tops the list. Although a very small minority, an encounter with one leaves a bad taste in the mouth that's hard to forget.
Most visitors never have such encounters, and apart from the fantastic sites, helps explain why Hong Kong is a top tourist destination in Asia. People who've been here recommend it to their friends. Nevertheless, it is the stories about bad experiences that travel the fastest and farthest and get the most attention.
Apart from unscrupulous individuals, the general public is also sometimes viewed askance as having some rude social behaviour. One that's often noticed involves people using the lift. Would-be passengers will try to rush themselves into a lift ('elevator' in American), sometimes even before the last person to come out has had a fair chance to try and come out.
On the other hand, it's seldom noted that people queue up automatically while waiting for their bus. If you come from a society where people ordinarily queue up for a lift, you'd find the lift-pincer attack custom in Hong Kong a bit rude. One the other hand, if your background comes from a society where people do not queue up for a bus, you'd find Hong Kong quite civilised.
Whether the reputation of rudeness is deserved or not is arguable, but it does exist. We all have our opinion, whether built from expectations, the stories we hear, and from our own experiences. Regardless of your view, it is undeniable that some of the most commonly heard words in this 'rude' city are words of courtesy and common etiquette.
These words are among the first we need to know, and the ones we will be using many times each day.
Excuse Me
Perhaps the first phrase most people learn how to say is 'excuse me'.
The Cantonese phrase for excuse me is m goy. The m is said as 'mm...', not as 'em'. The goy rhymes with the English word 'toy'.
You have to say m and goy running one after the other, with no distinct pause in between. But they do consist of two syllables. I would like to meet you if you manage to pronounce them with one syllable.
The following are wrong:
- m
one second pause in between goy (wrong). - m
breath in between goy (wrong).
You also use m goy to attract a shopkeeper's attention if you want service. If you wanted to stop someone in the street to ask for directions, the first words you say are m goy.
If you accidentally bump someone and want to say 'sorry, excuse me', you also use m goy.
You can use m goy in every situation where you would use excuse me. It's a handy word to know. It's a word associated with politeness and courtesy. By using it often, we help dispel some of the myth of rudeness in Hong Kong.
Next: The most commonly used word in daily Cantonese is m goy. The second most used word is also m goy.
11 November 2005
Concluding Dollars and Cents
Cantonese makes it really easy to be functional with numbers and amounts. We just have to memorize 13 words and a couple of simple rules for saying out numbers.
We do encounter special cases, occassionally, and I'm hoping the language will not get back at us somehow by flooding us with dozens of special cases.
Here's an example. For some reason, $10.1 is not sap go yat as the pattern for all other values logically leads us to assume. When we want to say $10.1 (or $10.2, or $10.3, etc.), we have to say the equivalent of 'ten zero and two' instead of just 'ten and two.'
Her's another special case. This time it concerns the amount $20. In street language, and that means any informal restaurant, small shops, and certainly the wet market, the Cantonese use yaah man to mean $20 instead of yih sap man.
You don't need to use this colloquialism, and you can just stick with yih sap man and you will be understood. But you do want to know about it because they will use it on you.
To pronounce yaah man, just imagine how a Chinese person might sound when trying to imitate a thick-accented Jamaican saying 'yeah, man'.
Here are some $20-odd dollar amounts in street language:
Here's our first attempt at a distillation:
1. To say an amount in dollars, just say the amount as a number, and add man at the end:
Just four rule, which represent our 'survival' kit.
They absolutely do not cover the whole spectrum of how to say any and all amounts in Cantonese, but they cover probably 95% of what you need to understand and %95 of what we need to use. They won't be enough when we try to buy a Rolls-Royce costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, but that doesn't happen often.
We'll stick with these four rules for now and revise them if we encounter cases that confound our rules.
Next: Is Hong Kong rude?
We do encounter special cases, occassionally, and I'm hoping the language will not get back at us somehow by flooding us with dozens of special cases.
Here's an example. For some reason, $10.1 is not sap go yat as the pattern for all other values logically leads us to assume. When we want to say $10.1 (or $10.2, or $10.3, etc.), we have to say the equivalent of 'ten zero and two' instead of just 'ten and two.'
Her's another special case. This time it concerns the amount $20. In street language, and that means any informal restaurant, small shops, and certainly the wet market, the Cantonese use yaah man to mean $20 instead of yih sap man.
You don't need to use this colloquialism, and you can just stick with yih sap man and you will be understood. But you do want to know about it because they will use it on you.
To pronounce yaah man, just imagine how a Chinese person might sound when trying to imitate a thick-accented Jamaican saying 'yeah, man'.
Here are some $20-odd dollar amounts in street language:
- $20 - yaah man
- $21 - yaah yat (man) [the man is optional]
- $29 - yaah gau (man)
Here's our first attempt at a distillation:
1. To say an amount in dollars, just say the amount as a number, and add man at the end:
- $10 - sap man
- $34 - sam sap man
- $12.10 - sap yih go yat man (ten two
one) - $153.70 - yat baak m sap sam go chat man (yat baak = one hundred, m sap = 50, sam = 3, chat = 7)
- $10.30 - sap leng go sam
- $10.50 - sap leng go m
Just four rule, which represent our 'survival' kit.
They absolutely do not cover the whole spectrum of how to say any and all amounts in Cantonese, but they cover probably 95% of what you need to understand and %95 of what we need to use. They won't be enough when we try to buy a Rolls-Royce costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, but that doesn't happen often.
We'll stick with these four rules for now and revise them if we encounter cases that confound our rules.
Next: Is Hong Kong rude?
09 November 2005
Dollars and Cents
We have covered how to say the numbers ranging from 0 to the thousands. To indicate that you are talking dollars (Hong Kong dollars), add man at the end. If you ask the price of something that costs $30, you'll get the response sam sap man, which means 30 dollars.
If you have memorised the numbers, then it's easy to say them in dollars. One dollar? Yat man. Two dollars? Leung man (remember our rule for the number two). A hundred dollars? Yat baak man.
Now comes a little difficulty.
In many countries, many items for sale show their prices in dollars and cents. Suprisingly, in Hong Kong, it seems that the prices are expressed in dollars and tens of cents, and this fact requires a little bit of getting used to. Something that costs $1.20 is no longer a dollar and 20 cents, it is now a dollar and two (tens).
I was intrigued when I first noticed this way of indicating price. I began to realise that we don't have coins with a value less than 10 cents. We don't have the equivalent of pennies ($0.01) or nickels ($0.05). We also don't have any coins that aren't in exact tens of cents -- we don't have quarters, for example, which is $0.25. What we have is $0.20.
Perhaps there were coins like those in earlier years, but I am not aware of any in current circulation. And since we're unlikely to encounter prices in fractions other than tens of cents, we'll just focus on what we'll encounter.
To say '10 cents', just say the number (remember, in tens of cents) and add houh at the end. 10 cents is yat houh (1 ten-cent). 30 cents is sam houh (3 ten-cent). 90 cents is gau houh. And 100 cents is of course yat man (one dollar). The houh rhymes with the English hoe, which is a gardening tool.
Memorise that usage of houh, and then quickly forget it. It's unlikely you'll find anything that costs less than a dollar and when the value involves both dollars and cents, you don't say houh anymore.
When the value involves both dollars and fractions of dollars (i.e., cents), you don't say houh anymore. Instead you say go. $1.1 is yat go yat. $1.2 is yat go yih. (For now, note that go does not refer to the decimal point. It also doesn't mean dollar. We'll get to that in some other post).
Here is the full range of fractional values for 4 dollars:
$4.00 - say man (4 dollars)
$4.10 - say go yat
$4.20 - say go yih
$4.30 - say go sam
$4.40 - say go say
$4.50 - say go bun (not say go m)
$4.60 - say go lok
$4.70 - say go chat
$4.80 - say go baht
$4.90 - say go gau
$5.00 - m man
Notice the quirk in $4.50. Contrary to the logic used with the other values, Cantonese speakers don't say say go m (4 dollars and 5). Instead, they say say go bun, which means 4 and a half. That rule goes for any amount, not just for 4 dollars. $9.50 is gau go bun.
You pronounce bun as poon ('Bun' seems to be the standard spelling, but bread-eating English speakers tend to read it as if it was bread) . And you must say poon without any air coming out of your pouted lips. It's not p-hoon, it's poon.
As I type this, I'm trying to say it myself without producing any air from my lips. It's difficult, perhaps impossible at first, for non-Cantonese speakers, but try to minimise the air anyway. You can also try saying boon instead of poon, if that's easier. But again, no air should come out. To a Cantonese, poon and boon are the same sound, as long as no air comes out.
The technical term linguists use to refer to the letting out of air when you pronounce a word is aspiration. Don't aspirate when you say bun.
Next: $1.1 is yat go yat, $2.1 leung go yat, $9.1 is gau go yat, but $10.1 is neither sap go yat nor yat sap go yat.
If you have memorised the numbers, then it's easy to say them in dollars. One dollar? Yat man. Two dollars? Leung man (remember our rule for the number two). A hundred dollars? Yat baak man.
Now comes a little difficulty.
In many countries, many items for sale show their prices in dollars and cents. Suprisingly, in Hong Kong, it seems that the prices are expressed in dollars and tens of cents, and this fact requires a little bit of getting used to. Something that costs $1.20 is no longer a dollar and 20 cents, it is now a dollar and two (tens).
I was intrigued when I first noticed this way of indicating price. I began to realise that we don't have coins with a value less than 10 cents. We don't have the equivalent of pennies ($0.01) or nickels ($0.05). We also don't have any coins that aren't in exact tens of cents -- we don't have quarters, for example, which is $0.25. What we have is $0.20.
Perhaps there were coins like those in earlier years, but I am not aware of any in current circulation. And since we're unlikely to encounter prices in fractions other than tens of cents, we'll just focus on what we'll encounter.
To say '10 cents', just say the number (remember, in tens of cents) and add houh at the end. 10 cents is yat houh (1 ten-cent). 30 cents is sam houh (3 ten-cent). 90 cents is gau houh. And 100 cents is of course yat man (one dollar). The houh rhymes with the English hoe, which is a gardening tool.
Memorise that usage of houh, and then quickly forget it. It's unlikely you'll find anything that costs less than a dollar and when the value involves both dollars and cents, you don't say houh anymore.
When the value involves both dollars and fractions of dollars (i.e., cents), you don't say houh anymore. Instead you say go. $1.1 is yat go yat. $1.2 is yat go yih. (For now, note that go does not refer to the decimal point. It also doesn't mean dollar. We'll get to that in some other post).
Here is the full range of fractional values for 4 dollars:
$4.00 - say man (4 dollars)
$4.10 - say go yat
$4.20 - say go yih
$4.30 - say go sam
$4.40 - say go say
$4.50 - say go bun (not say go m)
$4.60 - say go lok
$4.70 - say go chat
$4.80 - say go baht
$4.90 - say go gau
$5.00 - m man
Notice the quirk in $4.50. Contrary to the logic used with the other values, Cantonese speakers don't say say go m (4 dollars and 5). Instead, they say say go bun, which means 4 and a half. That rule goes for any amount, not just for 4 dollars. $9.50 is gau go bun.
You pronounce bun as poon ('Bun' seems to be the standard spelling, but bread-eating English speakers tend to read it as if it was bread) . And you must say poon without any air coming out of your pouted lips. It's not p-hoon, it's poon.
As I type this, I'm trying to say it myself without producing any air from my lips. It's difficult, perhaps impossible at first, for non-Cantonese speakers, but try to minimise the air anyway. You can also try saying boon instead of poon, if that's easier. But again, no air should come out. To a Cantonese, poon and boon are the same sound, as long as no air comes out.
The technical term linguists use to refer to the letting out of air when you pronounce a word is aspiration. Don't aspirate when you say bun.
Next: $1.1 is yat go yat, $2.1 leung go yat, $9.1 is gau go yat, but $10.1 is neither sap go yat nor yat sap go yat.
06 November 2005
Numbers higher than 10
Learning a new language is hard, so it is always pleasant to discover easy to learn pockets in the language. The numbers above 10 are one such pocket.
In English, you have to learn quite a few words in order to count to 1000. There is of course, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and ten. Then there's eleven, which appears only once even if you count to infinity. Twelve. Thirteen. Twenty-one. Thirty-five. I won't try it , but I think you have to remember 1,000 different words in order to count to 1,000 in English.
Happily, Cantonese requires you to remember just 13 words:
a) 1 to 10: Yat, Yih, Sam, Say, M, Lok, Chat, Baht, Gau, Sap.
b) The number 0 : Leng
c) The word for hundred: Baak
d) and the number for thousand: chin
To say 11 in Cantonese, just juxtapose 10 and 1 : sap yat.
Twelve? It's just 10 and 2: sap yih.
To say 31, it's just 3 and 10 and 1: sam sap yat.
How about 88? It's just 8 and 10 and 8: baht sap baht.
To say 100, say : yat baak. Here are some more examples using baak:
102 - yat bak leng yih (not yat bak yih)
150 - yat bak m sap
451 - say baak m sap yat.
Let's get stratospheric and try 946. It's just 9 and 100 (gau baak) and 4 and 10 (say sap) and 6 (lok) : gau baak say sap lok.
Now let's do a moonshot and try 1 thousand: yat chin.
Two thousand: yih chin. (Remember our rule for whether to use yih or leung? It seems to apply nicely here).
One last try. Four thousand, seven hundred and twenty four (4,724): say chin chat baak yih sap say
And that's all there is to it.
Next: You can count to 5 thousand, but can you say 13.50?
In English, you have to learn quite a few words in order to count to 1000. There is of course, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and ten. Then there's eleven, which appears only once even if you count to infinity. Twelve. Thirteen. Twenty-one. Thirty-five. I won't try it , but I think you have to remember 1,000 different words in order to count to 1,000 in English.
Happily, Cantonese requires you to remember just 13 words:
a) 1 to 10: Yat, Yih, Sam, Say, M, Lok, Chat, Baht, Gau, Sap.
b) The number 0 : Leng
c) The word for hundred: Baak
d) and the number for thousand: chin
To say 11 in Cantonese, just juxtapose 10 and 1 : sap yat.
Twelve? It's just 10 and 2: sap yih.
To say 31, it's just 3 and 10 and 1: sam sap yat.
How about 88? It's just 8 and 10 and 8: baht sap baht.
To say 100, say : yat baak. Here are some more examples using baak:
102 - yat bak leng yih (not yat bak yih)
150 - yat bak m sap
451 - say baak m sap yat.
Let's get stratospheric and try 946. It's just 9 and 100 (gau baak) and 4 and 10 (say sap) and 6 (lok) : gau baak say sap lok.
Now let's do a moonshot and try 1 thousand: yat chin.
Two thousand: yih chin. (Remember our rule for whether to use yih or leung? It seems to apply nicely here).
One last try. Four thousand, seven hundred and twenty four (4,724): say chin chat baak yih sap say
And that's all there is to it.
Next: You can count to 5 thousand, but can you say 13.50?
Two is not always Yih
There are two words for 'two' in Cantonese.
The first is Yih, which I spelled as Ee in the previous post. On hindsight, Yih is the better spelling and that is what I will use from now on. The second word is Leung, which also means two. Which one to use and when is the tricky part.
It's pronounced almost like lung (your organ for breathing), with just a soupçon of a short 'e' before the 'ung'. Remember that Cantonese is a monosyllabic language. All words have only one syllable, so you do not pronounce Leung as Le-ung (two syllables). It's one smooth trip from the L to the g. Leung.
An aside: if you don't know what the word soupçon means, look it up in the dictionary. Or better yet, see the movie Sideways. It's a pretentious word, no matter who uses it, so let's use it.
According to one resource I'm using, you use leung when you mean two and exactly two. For example, last night I bought some spring onions and I asked the vendor: Gei chin ah?. She replied leung man. Two dollars.
The same resource says that you use yih when the number two is used as part of a larger number. The number 12 is composed of two digits (1 and 2), therefore, you use yih here. We haven't tackled numbers above 10, but 12 in Cantonese is sap yih (not sap leung).
I'm not sure that that is all there is. I'm pretty certain I have encountered cases where that rule is irrelevant. But since my initial goal is to be functional in the language, and not to be a linguist, I'll use that simple rule for the meantime, until I encounter and understand an exception. We'll cross that bridge then.
Next: Graduate level Cantonese - counting from 11 to 20, and beyond.
The first is Yih, which I spelled as Ee in the previous post. On hindsight, Yih is the better spelling and that is what I will use from now on. The second word is Leung, which also means two. Which one to use and when is the tricky part.
It's pronounced almost like lung (your organ for breathing), with just a soupçon of a short 'e' before the 'ung'. Remember that Cantonese is a monosyllabic language. All words have only one syllable, so you do not pronounce Leung as Le-ung (two syllables). It's one smooth trip from the L to the g. Leung.
An aside: if you don't know what the word soupçon means, look it up in the dictionary. Or better yet, see the movie Sideways. It's a pretentious word, no matter who uses it, so let's use it.
According to one resource I'm using, you use leung when you mean two and exactly two. For example, last night I bought some spring onions and I asked the vendor: Gei chin ah?. She replied leung man. Two dollars.
The same resource says that you use yih when the number two is used as part of a larger number. The number 12 is composed of two digits (1 and 2), therefore, you use yih here. We haven't tackled numbers above 10, but 12 in Cantonese is sap yih (not sap leung).
I'm not sure that that is all there is. I'm pretty certain I have encountered cases where that rule is irrelevant. But since my initial goal is to be functional in the language, and not to be a linguist, I'll use that simple rule for the meantime, until I encounter and understand an exception. We'll cross that bridge then.
Next: Graduate level Cantonese - counting from 11 to 20, and beyond.
05 November 2005
Don't ask the price if you aren't ready for the answer
If you ask someone in English how much something costs, it's unlikely
that they will reply in French.
If you ask a Cantonese person Gei chin ah?, they will certainly reply in Cantonese. Of course, if you cannot understand prices in Cantonese, you'll have to make follow up requests: 'Sorry, can you repeat that in English?' or 'Sorry, I cannot understand Chinese'.
You might get the reply: "then, don't ask in Chinese if you can't understand the answer!", in various degrees of politeness.
So before asking how much something is in Chinese, be prepared to understand the reply.
Hong Kong uses dollar as their monetary currency. The Cantonese word for their dollar is man. Ten dollars is ten man. Man is pronounced with a short 'a' (but not like 'man' or 'fan' in English. It's more like the last a in banana).
The numbers in Cantonese from one to ten are:
1 - Yat
2 - Ee (pronounced as in yee, one syllable)
3 - Sam
4 - Say (as in 'say what?')
5 - M (Don't say 'em'. Say 'm', as in 'mm...this is delicious)
6 - Lohk
7 - Chat
8 - Baht
9 - Gau (Rhymes with cow).
10 - Sap (Zap with an 's')
Ten dollars is sap man. Five dollars is m man and so on.
Our first conversation:
A: Gei chin ah? (how much?)
B: Lohk man. (6 dollars)
Next: 1 dollar is yat man, and three dollars is sam man, but two dollars is not ee man.
Asking prices
How do you ask the price of something?
The most common phrase I hear people use is Gei chin ah? The proper and more formal sentence (according to some people I asked) would be Gei do chin? The first is probably more appropriate informal situations, and certainly for street talk. The second method is probably bit more stuffy (one presumes, don't quote me on that). But both work.
Chin means money. Ah is an expression used at the end of a question, somewhat similar to the way the Japanese end their questions with ka. If someone talks to you in Cantonese and ends their sentence with ah, you are certainly being asked a question.
Gei do asks 'how many?' . Here do is a classifier. In English, we use classifiers to clarify our meaning. We say 'how many pieces?', or 'how many gallons?', or 'how much (money)?'. This is similar to Cantonese, where the format Gei x is used.
You can now strut around Hong Kong and ask the prices of everything.
Next: Don't ask how much something is if you aren't prepared for the answer.
04 November 2005
Learning Cantonese
I've been putting off learning Cantonese for many years. Despite the fact that I live in Hong Kong, where Cantonese is the language everyone speaks, I've never really decided to learn the language seriously.
One of the reasons is that I am unsure about the future of the language in terms of commercial value. I still am. Cantonese is the language used in Hong Kong, but ever since the reunification with China, everyone including their pet fish has been learning Mandarin, which is the official language of China. If everyone's going Mandarin, why should I 'waste' time with Cantonese?
Will there be anyone left to talk to the time I learn it?
Another reason is that I never really really needed to learn the language. Yes, it's a little inconvenient haggling with wet market vendors about the price of something when you cannot even tell the vendor what it is you want to buy. But you get by. You learn a few vital phrases: like shouting yao lok! when you want to get off a minibus. And people you deal with learn a few vital phrases in English as well.
But now both my children are in school. My wife and I deliberately decided to put them in Chinese classes rather than in English in order to 'force' them to learn Chinese. It's a little bit like throwing children into water so they learn how to swim.
Only later did I realise that if you throw a baby in water to make it learn how to swim, you yourself better know how to swim just in case the baby has problems swimming.
The baby has some trouble swimming and it's time for the father to learn how to swim.
Next: In trade-driven Hong Kong, how do you ask: How much is this?
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)